I'm curious to see what kind of strategies people use when playing. I know that every game can be different depending on what loot you acquire, but I find myself resolving to using the same kind of strategy every run.
For me, my main strategy is based deeply around the first five levels. My main objective is to get past the Goo and ID as many item's as possible while I'm on the lower levels.
I tend to favour the warrior as he is the easiest to use. But I also like using the Mage because the wands can be quite useful (if you have the right ones) and thanks to new battlemage subclass he gained.
I explore the first level thoroughly until every unexplored pixel is either blocked by a barricade or surrounded by piranha. I always ID all the potions I find on the first floor before moving onto the second floor. With the enemies at a low level I don't get too worried if I set myself on fire. And if I do I am usually around water except for the rare occasion that there isn't any around the barricade I want to burn down. Unless I know 100% that it's a potion of liquid flame I will drink it in fear that I'm throwing away a strength potion.
I tend to not care much for trap rooms and romp into the traps head on (poisonous gas doesn't kill much of my HP, and if the floor is cleared than being paralysed isn't too much of a problem) unless I've already used up all the other potions on the level and know for sure the unID'd potion is a levitation potion.
Once I get to level two, I immediately ID any scroll's I've gained. I would do so on the level before but I don't want to waste a scroll of magic mapping or mind vision. I upgrade my sword/wand immediately if I get a scroll of upgrade (which is very common to get in the first level I find). One of the main reasons I love the Warrior and the Mage so much is that I can re-purpose that upgrade for a later weapon while at the same time using it to help me immediately. I guess for a Rouge I would upgrade the ring of shadow's if I stumble upon it, but that's because I always choose the Assassin as his subclass.
Once I get to the third level, I only ID scrolls. Potions can become a great liability if I happen to drink a negative one with a crab around, so I only ID potions if I come across a special room that requires it (and I know it has a fairly decent chance of not killing me for being the wrong potion). The only really bad scroll is the scroll of challenge. Once I ID it I hold onto them to sell them off to the vendor on level six.
I keep going until I find scroll's of identity and I hoard them up until I find some good armour, a good weapon, or a ring to use them on. And even then if I have a known scroll of curse removal (or I see a well of healing) then I will just equip them all on. If they are cursed I can remove them afterwards and toss them away. If not, I can find out later what they are. This way I can use the scrolls of identity on potions once I'm happy with knowing (ish) what my equipment is. Gotta prep for that tricky Goo!
Come level five and I look around the stairs for water both on level five itself and level four above it. Often there will be water within a block of the stairs leading down to level five which is perfect to fight off that nasty acid if I'm stair jumping.
If I'm feeling confident against the Goo I will awake him and lead him away until I'm on water block and he's on stone (but ONLY if I'm confident and I have really good gear). If not I will use the stair jumping technique to fight the Goo. Of course any potions of toxic gas or liquid flame will be used as well!
Once I'm past the Goo it's fairly smooth sailing until I get to level 17. The Monks and the Fire Elemental are just killer, and if I don't have ranged weapon or something to take out the spiders easily I'm just dead at that point.
I've been thinking lately about hoarding a potion of Strength or a Scroll of Upgrade until right before the boss battle too, just in case I find a well of transmutation to use them on. The downside is that I've had scrolls burn up (;~;) and deaths happen that might have been avoided had I used them earlier. What are your thoughts?
Sorry for the wall of text :P. I'd love to hear the different kind of strategies you guys use in your games, especially for the later levels!
First of all, congratulations! Judging by what you wrote I can say that you have learned to play in a smart an efficient way. I see that our gaming styles are very similar. I beat Goo the same way. Before in 0.3.5 this tactic might have been troublesome as you can see in the youtube video I have posted in the wiki, but now this is not the case. For me personally Goo is the hardest boss in the game. I don't even waste tactics on the other wannabes. I go straigt to them and beat them. :D
I can say that for me the dwarf warlock is the scariest enemy in the game because no matter how buffed your armor is he'll cast magic and nothing will save you from that. (at least for now) So often I would have to hide behind a door or something and wait for him to show up.
In the dwarf city I leave my scrolls near the stairs so no elemental can burn them. This is very important for me because I'd often stock a scroll of upgrade just in case I find well of transmutation.
I also love combinations. Combination between potion of toxic gas and potion of paralytic gas is very effective. Also potion of mind vision and scroll of terror/psionic blast works fine.
This is pretty much everything I can think of now. :)
It looks like everybody who play the game regurarly has the same tactics (with a few difference). My only problem is that i never made it through level 14 with it but I keep trying :) (maybe I should sleep more, I never use it to regain my health)
Sleeping is not a good idea on the deeper levels. The only thing you'll acomplish is starve or get some monsters on your back, because deeper floors mean higher level means more HP which is hard to regenerate by just sleeping. At the moment I only use sleep on levels 1-3. After that it's advisable in very rare situations like if you happen to find garden room.
If you have a problem with HP regen play as warrior or as a warlock. The warrior gets HP from eating and the warlock gets HP from killing.
I don't know if it's best but you need to keep upgrading stuff not just to make them usable but to make them stronger. +5 glaive will make more damage than +4 thus killing enemies faster. The same goes for armor. If you upgrade a simple chainmail to +4 you'll get the protection from a generic not upgraded plate armor.
I had runs where I managed to get 19 strength but I still had to upgrade gear because it is not good enough in its generic state. And what if your strenght is 19 but a warlock weakens you and takes you two points of strenght. If you're using glaive  you won't be able to use it(you'll only have 17 str). This has actually happened to me. :D So I was forced to upgrade the glaive.
So all in all scrolls upgrade are as important as potions of strenght. You need to find the balance.
I almost never buy Ankh anymore. For the price, you can get almost 2 healing potions. And it's better to drink a potion, survive and keep your inventory. Of course, you need to be very careful. There's nothing worse than dying with healing potions in your inventory :)
I am having the darndest time with the Rogue. Unable to get to/beat Tengu yet in order to unlock the bonus specialization class.
Anyone have a good strategy for Rogue? With the Warrior and Mage, it is easy to apply the first Scroll of Upgrade to the starting (sword / wand) weapon so it may still be useful if you find a better option later, by reforging / disenchanting. But the Rogue I usually put an extra point into the Ring of Shadows.
Then I usually hope to god I get a decent set of armor and/or weapon before my encounter with Goo. This seems to happen very infrequently. Sometimes I will have one or two Scrolls of Upgrade but refuse to use them on my dagger or on leather armor. Should I rethink this? I'm trying to think short term but also long term.
Any help greatly appreciated. My Warrior has made it all the way to the 21st floor. My Mage has made it pretty far a few times, so I feel like I have a working strategy for those classes. Rogue maybe I need to retreat more often. Find myself without potions and low on health constantly on the first four levels.
Don't upgrade the ring of shadows as this won't help you against bosses. Upgrade armor if you find at least chainmail armor. Did you know that +4 chainmail is as good as generic plate armor? So upgrade armor. Also spare around 4 potion of healing for Tengu. If you have identified potions of toxic gas and paralysis you can throw the at him in a combo to drop his HP or even kill him. I've done it several times when my character is weak.
Ok well I finally beat not only Tengu with my Rogue, but he made it all the way down past the hall of the great (late) Dwarf King. I got pretty lucky with some decent armor and weapon finds... ended with some amazing gear:
Burning Glaive +2, Platemail +4, Ring of Shadows +1, Ring of Haste +3
Wands: 2 x Slow, Firebolt, Lightning, Poison, Blink, Telekinesis, Flock
Didn't even end up needing a single health potion during the King battle! Just owned him with potions and wands. The Burning Glaive decimated his minions, mostly in one-shots.
It was quite glorious. I was pretty darn lucky. Never seen that many wands. I mean, I played it ultra safe, but was super lucky as well. Ended up finding 3 potions of Experience, used the last couple near the end. Think I am level 22.
Now to get my Mage to that level and hope the next update comes out soon :)
Galehar wrote: I almost never buy Ankh anymore. For the price, you can get almost 2 healing potions. And it's better to drink a potion, survive and keep your inventory. Of course, you need to be very careful. There's nothing worse than dying with healing potions in your inventory :)
I agree. I used to always get an Ankh, but as soon as I was revived I would be switly killed trying to go to the next level. Unless you have a stash of items hanging around on a lower floor, buying an Ankh is a waste of space.
1. Nah when upgraded leather doesn't potect as much as chain. You'll be wasting scrolls on it.
2. Yeah you obviously drink it when you face danger, but many people drink potions to identify them. So this is one way to waste them. Also by not playing smart you can waste them. Many times you could have done something to avoid the use of potions of healing. This is what I mean by wasting, but if you prefer I could say that it's just good to have around 4 potions of healing for Tengu if your other gear sucks hard.
I have done a video with medium gear and i needed 3 potions or so. You can check it on the Tengu page.
Assumzaek wrote: 1. Nah when upgraded leather doesn't potect as much as chain. You'll be wasting scrolls on it.
I know it doesn't protect as much, but you get a better dodge bonnus. I'm refering to this:
Rogues get a bonus to their dodge ability when they wear light armor. The dodge bonus is increased with each point of strength beyond what is required to wear the armor (dodgeBonus = strength - baseArmorStrength + armorEnhancement).
So it seems like highly enchanted leather might be good, I'll try to experiment it.
On another note, I found a new strategy for item identification. Last time I reached goo, I had 3 different unidentified potions. I just kept them and was able to kill goo. Then I reached the shop, I bought 2 unidentified identical potions which are very likely to be healing. And one of the 3 I was carrying was the same colour. So it allowed me to "soft-id" my healing potion and buy more cheaper.
The conclusion is that you probably shouldn't do too much use-iding on the first 5 floors. Id potions if you find special rooms that need them, id scrolls for upgrade and then stop. Reaching the shop with many unidentified items will give you hints to what they are and allow you to buy them cheaper.
If you don't blow your crolls of upgrade on a leather armor you can spare them for plate. Then you can upgrade it untill it's light enough for you. Not only will you get dodge but also good protection. I don't think you should bet on dodge too much because what's the point if you dodge 3 out of 4 hits but the 4th oneshots you because your protection sucks. Also what's the point of dodge against skeletons when they explode. The explosion always hurts you even if your dodge is like over 9000 and I doubt you can range kill every single one of them. Eventually some of them are going to exlode near you and it's going to hurt a lot.
Leather armor is definitely not the way to go when it comes to levels deeper than 5. This is my opinion at least.
As a rogue, you'll get a much higher dodge bonus by using enchanted leather rather than enchanted plate. The formula I posted above is specific for the rogue. It seems to be a new thing, because this was missing from the rogue's description on the wiki (I just added it):
Rogues are proficient with light armor, dodging better while wearing one.
If you ignore it and just go for the heaviest armour you can use, you might be wasting this rogue's special ability. I'm just wondering what the sweet spot is. Probably leather or chain.
Dude even watabou wrote in one of his posts that a light armor for the rogue is any armor that's below the strenght requirement. This obviously means that the rogue won't lose his ability if he's wearing plate armor. We have also discused this here in the wiki.
I think he means that when you wear low tear armors and you upgrade them a lot ur strength will be far higher and you will dodge almost every single attack i think though the problem is that one blow that you didn't dodge will kill you or at least make a lot of damage. Still think its better to have scale or plate armor...
Ok so I made some calculations. I'm not very good at this and i hope I haven't made any mistakes. So let's say you're lvl 6 rogue with 13 strenght. A +5 chaninmail will absorb 19 points and will make your dodge 15. A +5 plate will absorb 41 and will make your dodge 11.
I don't know if the 4 extra points in the dodge make a big difference, but I sure know that 41 is a lot better than 19. I have reached cave levels with rogue and chainmail +4 and it's insanely hard to fight the mobs under those circumstances. I died on depth 13. I don't, however, have the same problem when I wear plate armor.
My thought is that the higher dodge ability of the rogue isn't something that you can solely depend on.
So this discussion started with the leather armor. I stay behind my statement that you shouldn't bother upgrading one of those because with chainmail it's already insanely hard to survive untill the end and we haven't even seen the real end yet. :D
A great strategy for bosses is saving up potions of toxic gas, and a combination of either invisibility or paralysis. I just defeated the Dwarf King using Toxic Gas, invisibility and a +4 Wand of Firebolt. It definitely helps a ton for the Dwarf King and his cohorts as it damages all of them at once while they scramble around (mostly in the area that the toxic gas effects) looking for an invisible enemy.
I think that it’s a compromise to find, depending on the Rogue level, its strength, the fought enemy (accuracy and damages) and the number of Scrolls of Upgrade applied to the armor.
As an example, let’s take a Rogue having:
(I took these realistic values at random, I still don’t know what the result will be).
Cloth armor +6
Plate armor +6
Risk to be hit
14/37 ≈ 37.84 %
14/29 ≈ 48.28 %
Average damage if hit
Overall average damage
So, despite the 8 additional dodge points (11-3) decreasing the risk to be hit from 48.28 % to 37.84 % (risk divided by 37/29 = 1.2759…, whatever the enemy is), the higher average damage if hit (26.5 instead of 10.0900… for the Golem, average damage multiplied by 2.6264…) make the overall average damage higher too (10.0270… instead of 4.8710…, which is 2.6264…/1.2759… = 2.0585… times higher).
There may be cases where the 8 additional dodge points of a Cloth armor compared to the Plate armor with same level is more interesting than the damage reduction, but I guess that these cases are very rare (maybe against the Marsupial rats? I’m not even sure of that.)
I'm not saying you shoud ignore a good plate when playing a rogue. It will be just as good as with another class, which means extremly good.
However, if you don't find any but instead find a nice +3 leather or chain in the early levels, it might be worth enchanting it and trying to survive instead of just dying. Looks like the bonus is too small to be useful in the lower levels. Shame, a high dodge could help against monks and fire elementals. Being hit less often means less disarm and less burning up.
Assumzaek wrote: Yeah I did the same with Tengu. Really great strategy. You just need the ingredients.
How did you approach DM-300?
I try to slow it down as much as possible through either a wand of slowness, paralytic gas, curare darts or just having a freerunner rogue to out run it. This is probably the only place I use seeds a lot too. From there on it's a matter of damaging it at a distance, preferably with any fire attacks and darts that will do continual damage.
There does come a time when I run out of items/wand charges to throw at him so I just jump at it and attack while healing with whatever potions I have on me. I don't generally find DM-300 to be terribly difficult unless I'm low on health potions and/or I start close combat too early.
However, if you don't find any but instead find a nice +3 leather or chain in the early levels, it might be worth enchanting it and trying to survive instead of just dying.
But as there is only 2 (60 %) or 3 (40 %) Scrolls of Upgrade per stage (set of 5 depths), there is only 8 — 12 (9.6±0.9798…) SoU in the entire game for the moment: If you find a good Plate armor later (2.22 % prob. of being +3), you won’t get back the used SoU…
If you find a high tier weapon early in the game, you can try to use it but only attack monsters in doors for the "surprise attack autohit". I found a glaive on second level as an assassin and I one shoted every monsters using this tactic. Don't try it on a statue wielding a blazing battle axe though...
Also, speaking of stabs, you can zap a wand of slowing at a sleeping monster without waking it, walk up to it and stab it TWICE. Might be a bug though.
Does attacking at a door always mean a hit - or just for the first attack? So get aggro, then back out of the room and wait for the hit?
I've a warrior and rogue that are L17/L18 but having to continuously farm potions to progress. I don't know how else to beat the game. Perhaps I shouldn't have +10'd my full plate and left my spear at +1. On the bright side, waiting on more SoU and Str pots so I can bring my venomous glaive to bear.
Just need to farm 20 potions now.. (btw, knuckleduster -2 doesn't seem to help much.)
A different Goo kill: I had leather armor, and just a +1 upgraded short sword with 13 STR (...and I had already used up my last health potion on L4) and defeated him in exactly TWO hits! Several other items, combined, brought him PAIN very quickly...4 incendiary arrows, two invis potions, 2 flame potions, 1 seed of firebloom, 2 seeds of sorrowmoss, a partridge...anyway...i sat on the threshold of his doorway; watching him sleep...and trying to figure out the best way to take him down with no plate, no health potions, and a rather low-powered weapon. I knew that I wanted to get the seeds dropped down and make sure that he couldn't side-step them. First, I went clandestine (invisi potion). I then hit him with the first flame potion (which I figured would cause him to IMMEDIATELY see me and I'd have to use the other invisi...). Lo and Behold, he actually DIDN'T see me! I then just sat there, watching the clock...and watching his health slowly drain. I was getting excited at this point...I was on to SOMETHING different! I then watched in dread as he slid himself over to heal in his pool! (The little SNEAK!). I kept watching though, because he was only healing for the +1, but his overall health was in steady decline. I then decided to draw him away from it, since he was far enough away from ME now that he would HAVE to close the distance...and in doing so incur MORE damage. I hit him with a flame arrow, then turned to run, as that obviously blew my cover! I reached the door early, so just after I got through, I set the firebloom! <POOF!> He was newly ablaze, and with not much water in the hallway (not that this probably mattered at this point...), I could see that he was really in TROUBLE! Since he was still a good few tiles away, I dropped BOTH sorrowmoss's with my next two steps...he was pretty much DONE FOR by now! This had us BOTH at the stairwell, and his health was in such decline that, while just standing next to the stairs, I swung at him once...and CONNECTED! He swung back (and missed). We went through this once more with the exact same results, which ended in him losing the battle without being able to hit me
Accidentally hit "enter" on my earlier adventure...I DID wind up using the other invisi potion just before we got to the stairs, which made him start to wander again. I was afraid he would get too far away so somewhere along this path I hit him with the remaining flame arrows which made him come after me again. I used to frown at the seeds, thinking they wouldn't really help much, but after this, I realize they are a good strategy to use (at least against Goo). Part of the fun for this app, for me, is even though I die (usually by making a stupid mistake like not paying attention to my health when trying to farm, which takes forever), the randomness of what you'll see in the next playthrough is a BIG part of the charm! Sure, it's frustrating to die to a Gnoll Brute while you have 10 health potions, but it's fun seeing what you'll get next time...and that NEXT TIME might be THE ONE!
Strategies? After quite a lot of games I think the best and only viable strategy is to find plate armor before crabs make mincemeat of me, either them or goo ;)
Seriously, while the game is fun as hell, it is all about getting great loot in first few levels. There is not really any strategy involved as there are certain encounters where you have to have good armor (and later, dodge) or you will just die.
188.8.131.52 wrote: Strategies? After quite a lot of games I think the best and only viable strategy is to find plate armor before crabs make mincemeat of me, either them or goo ;)
Seriously, while the game is fun as hell, it is all about getting great loot in first few levels. There is not really any strategy involved as there are certain encounters where you have to have good armor (and later, dodge) or you will just die.
Not always. If you get a good weapon or just upgrade on of the more weak ones you can still get pass crabs and goo with leather armor. But afterwards you shoud find at least chainmail because skeletons are going to smack you.
Mine is a very simple tactic. Go through entirety of 1 floor. Kill more monsters untill levelup. Identify all potions and scrolls. Repeat for each floor. On my most successful run so far(still nooby), I got pwned by DM-300 because I forgot to bring healing potions... and I was in critical health. Equip: sword+5, Scale armor(I call it scalemail)+4(I got really lucky with sad ghost, scalemail+3), Mahogany wand of Disintergration, Yule wand of Lightning, ring of Satiety, and ring of shadows-1.
I had a longsword 4+ and a scale armour 5+,strength about 15,level 11, and got killed on 13th floor while trying to get to the stairs by a cave spinner.I had like a fifth of my health and died.Any tips on avoiding cave spinners?
some one please direct me to a page that will explain why i cant get past lvl 3. also i read a scoll once and i teleported me to a room with a shit ton of mobs and no visible way out. i died in 4 moves and was un able to attack. that may have been because my fone is shity tho.
my one really successful tactic is trivial: get a vampiric weapon, never required to eat anymore, health is never an issue, farming stuff is much easier. anything crossing my path is actually cannonf... aeh i mean my "health-battery". found vampiric knuckles early, playing a mage and there was also a helpful chain mail of entanglement, gave me an extra protection. upgraded chain mail heavily and mostly just dodging from attacks while attacking twice per round with knuckles (health+, health+...). actually even bats are giving me more health than they take... *grin* *harharharhar*.
on dungeon level 6 had player level 11, so the next levels only shamans gave me some xp, while the other stuff was just supplying health... farmed health potions from flies, scrolls from shamans and a few items from skeletons/shamans. level 16 on dungeon level 12, meanwhile even brutes (those were a slight pain on my health) and bats are not giving me xp, have to rely on spinners (annoying basterds!). being blessed with wand of firebolt, of teleportation, of blink, of telekinesis and of amok it's just a simple run... now at level 16 in dungeon level 14, farming spinners for xp... they are making me using up my yet 65 health potions left but at least 9xp per kill is worth the pain. mail armor is meanwhile +5 (lost entanglement) and the vampiric knuckles are +2 (me old gambler used the one upgrade on those rusty knuckles... and vampiric ability still there.... uff). having strength 15 and health 100 is comfortable (dodge, health+, dodge, health+, hit, 0 damage, health+ ....). beside 12000 gold collected. so my clear conclusion: get a vampiric weapon and your worries are past....
i feel almost embarassed ;)
the vampiric knuckles are +2 (me old gambler used the one upgrade on those rusty knuckles... and vampiric ability still there.... uff).
You could have lowered your stress level by knowing that upgrading from level 1 to level 2 doesn’t have any risk of losing the enchantment/glyph.
Upgrading from level 2 to level 3, on the other hand, is a coin toss (50 % to keep the enchantment/glyph).
than' ya, me old adventurer got chain mail up to +7 and dodged in every battle or swallowed minor damage.... and then you don't watch your health and die on a bloody simple dwarfen monk with 60 health potions in the pocket.... anyway, was quite cramped my pocket, how did i ever got them all into the pocket?? lost all scrolls, most potions, some items... just previously i had accidenlty throwed all staffs on traps... so stil had them. but hours of health potion and scrolls harvesting, then going through the deeper levels with none... just sucks... even more painful was the loss of 2 experience potions and both containers... lost motivation and did not care much about dying soon on lvl 18, was a lvl 22 warlock. without those potions travelling all the time forth and back between levels (getting up to suck life from weak enemies, then down to fight next few enemies, back up to suck life, back down... it sucked). actually in one word my gameplay "sucked" from start to end ;)
- best: use vampiric weapon, no hunger (no mistery meat experiments on humans) and health issues, knuckles worked fine for me as attacking twice was useful, but surely any vampiric weapons does the job. hunger also limits the amount of possible searches on level, so vampiric weapon gives you more time to search for secrets.
- good items are essential, you can fight goo with fire with distance weapons, paralysing him, having a good chain/plate (even if just putting it on for this ginle fight), ... even a staff of blink can prove a blessing keeping distance from him...
- combos like poison, flame and paralyze or blink away are useful
- improve armour will make it tougher and lower strength requirement which also is making you dodging better. loved my chain mail +7... and even if paralyzed, the armour will keep you alive when the enemy has some free attacks on you...
- blazing weapons are great and i love the gamemechanics surprising you every time. use a blazing weapon in a grass field ;)
- explore the level fully, than try the potions/scrolls (usually if there are traps, rooms with no floor, piranhas, than you will find potions for the solution. drinking a potion, finding out it is levitation and than hoping to find the right place to use this is fruitless
- try to advance experience levels before going for the next level (sb above mentioned level generation is taking your level into account), will be limited by hunger specific
- animated statue, especially in the beginning tough
- wraith, they dodge like hell, zap with wand or get behind door, when they step through, surprise, you hit for free
- piranhas... invisibility, staff of blink, staff of teleport (hope they land on a dry tile), staff of amok, maybe even levitation helps
- well of transmutation: reserved for scrolls of upgrade, will give you scrolls of weapon upgrade...
- well of awareness + a scroll of remove curse : so put on all unknown items, ignore the bad stuff, drink from the well, use remove curse if required.
- be on water if fighting against fire or acid - be on water if you use potions first time... i was crazy enough to stand near a bookshelf, drink potion, it set me on fire, bookshelf as well, than run for the next water tile...
- harvest potions from flies (see a previous poster) and bats, scrolls from shamans.
- when you don't get anymore experience from monsters, it means your xp level is already very high, prooving you are running very well